THE INTERVIEW　加藤寿和（加藤木魚製造所・木魚職人）

About Mokgyo Manufacturing “Kato Mokgyo Manufacturing”

When was Kato Mokuyo Seisakusho founded?
To be honest, I don't know (lol). It started in my grandfather's generation, but since he passed away, I've never really asked him about it. I'm just guessing, but I think it was around 90 years ago.

Mr. Toshikazu is the third generation, and his father, Haruo, is the second generation. Has Mr. Toshikazu already succeeded to the third generation name?
It's not official yet, but I think it's about time. Currently, my father remains the manager.

Mr. Toshikazu, when did you start working on making mokgyo?
That was 27 or 28 years ago. Circa 1992. I worked as an office worker in Tokyo for about five years.
I started it the year I turned 27.

Hey. That's right. What was your occupation when you were a salaried worker?
It's completely unrelated...I was working as an accountant for a travel agency, and as a result, the work I did back then came in handy for my "blue tax return" (lol)

Why did you decide to quit your job around that time and start working as a mokugyo maker?
At the time, my parents told me to come back in a few years.

Your father expected you to be his successor.
At that time, my father seemed to think it was natural for him to come back home and help his parents, perhaps as an assistant. People in the past had the sense that this was natural.

I agree. It must have been around the height of the bubble economy.
Well, I guess it was a bit of a downhill period. But the economy was good everywhere. Our family business was also doing well. It seemed like the temple was doing well, so my parents told me to come home early and help out because they were busy.
So, of course, Tokyo companies are also doing well. That's why I didn't decide to go back home and join the family business.In fact, I felt like, ``If I go out there, it's all mine'' (lol)

Hahaha, I see (lol)
But, when I'm asked this question from time to time, I try to answer like this, but there's a certain emptiness that comes with office work. There are no traces of your work left behind. No trace left. However, with this job, the work that I did remains in a tangible form. If you make something properly, it can be used for decades. It certainly gave me an opportunity to reevaluate what work is.

Did you have any regrets about the fun life in Tokyo (lol)?
Well, a lot of things happened (lol), so I didn't have any regrets.

He returned to his parents' home and began making mokugyo.

So, after overcoming various obstacles, he was able to return to his parents' home of mokgyo manufacturing.
Now, it's time for the actual production. What do you start with?
At first, I started with the middle carving. If you make a mistake when working on the outside finish, you can't correct it, right? The center carving can be modified as much as you like later, so I spent a lot of time doing that first. It's been that way for years.

How many years?
I wonder how many years they've been doing it... In the end, (my father) didn't think about how many years he'd let me do this, and then let me do that. perhaps. Anyway, I let them mainly do the center carving, and when they needed their hands, I let them help with other tasks, and over the years I've been doing that, I've gradually mastered parts of various things.

When did you start working on difficult technology?
Hmm... Our generation isn't the kind of person who waits for instructions, but I wonder if we shouldn't do anything until told to do so. That's why I tried not to interfere as much as possible. Then (my father) got angry and said, ``Why are you still doing nothing?'' (laughs)

That's unreasonable (lol)
Hahaha. Well, it used to be like that. I think I was being unnecessarily shy.

Now, I would like to follow the process step by step. Is camphor tree the only material?
yes. Sometimes we use high-quality mulberry wood.

Camphor trees are often planted at shrines and temples. It has grown into a large tree and is known as a sacred tree.
You can also see things that are enshrined as such.
That's right. I don't know the details of why they are planted in such a place, but camphor trees grow quickly. It is an evergreen tree that does not lose its leaves even in winter. It's always green, and the leaves change in early spring, but they don't fall all at once. Maybe that's what people like about it.

I saw the raw wood earlier, and it was in the form of a log.
yes. I buy it as a log and let it sit for at least three years. If I don't let it sleep for that long, I'll go crazy.

It takes three years. Now that the camphor tree has sufficiently dried, what should you do with it?
It's "Kidori". This process involves cutting the wood according to size and cutting it into rough shapes. When making this shape, you will also make a notch for the frontage.
Next is the process of rounding the outline. The first step is to cut down the corners. As you chisel off the corners, the surface becomes finer and finer and gradually becomes rounder.

You don't carve the inside first.
You can't carve the inside unless you have a certain basic outline. I can't get a ``gut feeling'' when the outside shape is irregular. So first roll it up to a certain extent. If I had to give it a name, I think it would be ``plastic surgery.'' After this, we will do the process of carving out the inside, called ``Nakabori.'' This wording may vary depending on the craftsman.

How much do you carve inside? With this kind of shape, it is difficult to measure the thickness with a micrometer.
To be honest, it's just a hunch. Specifically, if you look into the inside of a mokugyo while placing your hand on the outside, you can get a sense of its thickness. So, it depends on the size of the mokugyo, but I'm trying to adjust it to about 1 to 2 centimeters. I think it's actually a little thicker than that.
Then let it dry naturally for a while. Depending on the size, it can take a year for a small item and 5 or 10 years for a large item. The one placed here is 2 shaku and 2 sun, but it is also 10 years old. The drying time varies depending on the size.

Are you going to let me sleep in this state for that long again? The many pieces that were hung in the small room next door were the ``medium carvings'' that were left to dry naturally.
that's right.

As for determining how dry it is, if you use something that is not yet dry enough,
Will it break after all?
Unless it's clearly moist, it's unlikely that it will crack all the way to the core, but it is possible for fine decorative carvings to crack. If that happens, it will become a source of complaints. Kusunoki... has cracks... (bitter smile)
As a side note, I received an unusual item the other day. I think it was made in China or Korea, and it was a ``fish board'' that is said to be the origin of mokgyo, but it had cracks in many places, and I was asked to repair the cracks. Since they were made from the same camphor tree, we had to carefully fill in the small cracks with wood and repair them, but it took about three days. Nowadays, the only people who can do such repairs are transom craftsmen or me.

Finishing, sounding, and decorative engraving.

Now, the next step is to round the outside neatly. What do you call this work?
Hmm...I've never thought about it (lol) The process involves sanding the entire piece with a mechanical rotary sander, and then sanding the small parts by hand. Well, I guess I can only call it "finishing".
When you compare these two, it seems like you can reach this state easily, but it actually took a lot of effort to get to this point. We finally got to this point by using chisels and planes. When the cut surface becomes finer, you can finally create a beautiful round curve just by sanding it with a file.

I see. What can I say...the work of making the polyhedron smaller and smaller...
Is that what you're saying?
To put it simply, it feels like the corners are gradually dropping.
The next step is to create the sound. I agree. It's sometimes called "sounding."

What kind of things do you pay attention to when creating sounds?
When making Mokugyo, we don't really care about the pitch, so we end up stopping at the point where it resonates the most. What is important is that in addition to the middle carving, if you make the edges of the notch thinner or deeper, the pitch will drop. If you close or open this part (the end of the opening) with your fingers a little, the pitch and sound quality will change, but as you progress through this process, there will be a point where the sound won't change that much even if you open and close it. When you get to that point, you realize, ``Oh, this is the limit.''
If you carve this part further or shave it thinner, the sound may become better when you cover it with your finger, but we say that if you do that much, the sound will "drop out"...

Oh, does that mean you've done it?
Yes, ah, I did it (lol)

However, a mokkuyo that has been properly ``sounded'' in this way has the feeling that ``the sound was created by human hands.'' I mean, it sounds honest.
And finally, there is the decorative engraving. There seem to be several styles of decorative carving patterns.
yes. This pattern is often called Kamen Rider (lol), but this is the basic style. It depicts two dragons and is called ``Nagoya-bori''. For small or inexpensive items, a simplified version of Nagoya-bori is carved, but for larger or more expensive items, the features become more elaborate and detailed. The highest quality items are decorated with a ``dragon carving'' that does not require any simplification.

I sometimes see patterns that are not symmetrical like this.
Ah, that's called "Shachibori" and even though it's called "Shachi", it's not a real Shachi, it's a fictional fish.
It's like the Shachi from Shachihoko. I've heard that people in Kyoto often have this design.
At my workshop, this is treated like an "extra edition." The number of orders is also small.

That's interesting. What steps do you take when carving a design like this?
At first, I will draw the pictures freehand. It's like carving a picture using the R of a chisel. When the design becomes more complicated, there is a pattern, so I transfer it and proceed.

Freehand at first! That's amazing. Is there a person who engravers the patterns?
We will draw it ourselves. There was a kind of master or school of writing style, and it seems that there were about three systems, but now that they are going out of business more and more, I don't know how many of them actually remain.

I see.JapanThe reality is that the manufacturing industry in all industries suffers from a chronic lack of successors. It is also painful for us to hear stories like this.
There used to be a Mokugyo manufacturing association, but it was disbanded a long time ago. So there is no such thing as an industry. However, recently, the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry has granted approval to designate them as traditional crafts under the category of ``Owari Buddhist utensils.'' I can now officially call myself a ``traditional craftsman.'' I hope that this kind of thing will be useful in preserving our culture and traditions.

I hope that things are heading in the right direction.

Create a ``mokugyo for music''.

Does the K.M.K Mokugyo we are requesting go through the same process up to the "decorative carving" of regular Mokugyo?
No, actually, it's a little different. Ordinary mokgyo are carved with decorative carvings, so if the sides of the mokgyo are carved so that they curve, like the K.M.K. mokgyo, they can't be used as Buddhist altar tools. Therefore, the process branches out from a fairly early stage. That's why it's different from this stage to submit it to Komaki.
When shipping items as Buddhist altar fittings, customers are very concerned about their appearance. The color, the wood grain, etc. Therefore, items with dark wood grain are avoided by Buddhist accessories shops. However, in Mr. Komaki's case, as long as the sound is good as a musical instrument, he is fine with it, so with his consent, he purposely uses materials that are difficult to use as Buddhist altar fittings. That's been very helpful.

Our Mokugyo products are highly praised by our users, especially for their tone, so we always recommend them with confidence.
Do you have any difficulties when asked to make Mokugyo for music?

At first, I was wondering what would happen when I accepted the contract, but since we are basically doing the same thing, there isn't much difference. As for the pitch, the instruments made using the method of ``sounding'' that are used as Buddhist altar tools often fall within the range specified by Mr. Komaki. On the other hand, since I accepted this job, I feel that the standards for adding sounds to Buddhist Buddhist utensils have become clearer.
Oh, and the tuner app you introduced is very useful. I used to use a guitar tuner, but the needle didn't respond especially when it came to high notes. The app picks up the information well, making it easier to proceed with the work.

Does the Buddhist altar fittings store ever specify the pitch?
That's not true. If anything, I've been asked to make unreasonable requests like, ``Please lower the pitch of a small mokugyo.'' (laughs)

Is there anything you would like to tell people who use it in music?
Well... if you drop it, it will break, so I guess you should "don't drop it" (lol). That's the most common. Also from a Buddhist supplies shop. I received a complaint that the item broke after being dropped.
Also, working with Komaki-san is very rewarding. I feel like I'm touching a part of culture by making it as an instrument and for music. In the world of Buddhist utensils, it is difficult to get that kind of feeling. I hope to continue making Mokugyo with good tones and being involved in the world of music.

We are also this pureJapanI will tell you about the wonders of made wooden fish. Thank you for your time today.

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K.M.K｜Mokugyo (temple block)
An original brand developed by Komaki Tsusho in Japan. Many of our products, including our gongs, which were developed from our unique perspective and ideas, have been used in various fields for many years. The list is filtered by Mokugyo.